Curse

The Fox · Sep 30, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

As the title says, Will any of these attributes offer offhand items or is my gingerbread foci as good as it gets?

Hyper Cutter · Sep 30, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

If they're like Assassins and Rangers, there will never be weapons for anything other than Scythe Mastery or any offhands whatsoever...

logan90 · Oct 01, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Since a scythe is a two-handed weapon, it would be extremely unlikely.

Saider maul · Oct 01, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

I'm not sure. They are a viable class as both melee and as casters.
I surely hope so.

Shattered Self · Oct 01, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

If they're like Assassins and Rangers, there will never be weapons for anything other than Scythe Mastery or any offhands whatsoever...

Quoted for truth. Didn't see any during the preview, and I wouldn't get your hopes up for the final release.

Quid Pro Quo · Oct 01, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

If they're like Assassins and Rangers, there will never be weapons for anything other than Scythe Mastery or any offhands whatsoever...

But there not like Assassins and Rangers. Those classes are both relatively non-magical like warriors. Dervish on the otherhand could act like melee casters/healers if they chose to without their secondaries.

Although I agree with no offhands even though I think it would make sense for them to make them.

Zinger314 · Oct 01, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Earth and Wind Prayers aren't usuallly full fledged spells. They are usually melee support.

Quid Pro Quo · Oct 01, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Earth and Wind Prayers aren't usuallly full fledged spells. They are usually melee support.

Some of them are, yeah, but there are still a very good ammount that aren't.

Look at wind prayers. There are more then 4 good heals there and lots of attacks that don't require a scythe to use. Earth prayers are more on the defensive side but both wind and earth have attacks that don't need the scythe and mysticism also has heals and spell attacks.

Terra Xin · Oct 01, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quid Pro Quo

But there not like Assassins and Rangers. Those classes are both relatively non-magical like warriors. Dervish on the otherhand could act like melee casters/healers if they chose to without their secondaries.

Although I agree with no offhands even though I think it would make sense for them to make them.

Assassin's aren't relatively non-magical, they have two attribute lines that are caster-based. You can also make the same comparison to a trapper, or pure beastmaster, and they don't get the benefits of having offhands.

I don't see the sense in dervishes having such offhands, their skills aren't based around them being able to play at range.

Rex the Unloving · Oct 01, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Deadly Arts and Shadow Arts didnt have off-hands, so i dont think those will either

Yawgmoth · Oct 01, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

We probably won't see them although i see no real reason for them not to exist. Did Anet decided that caster-Dervishes shouldn't get any extra energy? All Dervishes have to run with a scythe or get a caster secondary profession for the wand+offhand.
It's the same problem we had with Rangers before and as we all know not every Ranger needs a bow, there are many viable build based on beast mastery / expertise / wilderness survival and they get ZERO item support too. This is imho bad aswell, as they're forced to use staves for +energy or shields for +8armor -2stanced +hp...
Why not make items that give exact same bonuses Rangers or Dervishes can already get but made for them, and possible to be chosen at pvp char creation ??

EDIT:
After a longer thought i realised that a reason these professions don't get items for their caster-like attributes may be that they wouldbe rather 'niche', rarely used, so everybody would be like "omg i got another beastmaster staff xD"
And a reason that Dervishes don't get any offhands might be that they would need an 1-hand weapon aswell then and Anet didn't want to see Dervishes wanding...

Quid Pro Quo · Oct 01, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

Assassin's aren't relatively non-magical, they have two attribute lines that are caster-based. You can also make the same comparison to a trapper, or pure beastmaster, and they don't get the benefits of having offhands.

I don't see the sense in dervishes having such offhands, their skills aren't based around them being able to play at range.

Actually "Deadly Arts" and "Shadow Arts" seem to imply that both of these are tricks and illusions. Just reading the names of the spells also implies that.

Sure there are skills that are actual spells but not many while the Dervish has many spell attacks and heals. Although you are right in the fact that they aren't based on range but the same could be said for many of the necromancer spells. Just look at how many are on touch or in close range.

But I've already said I don't think the Dervish will actually get offhands I'm just saying that it would make sense if they did get them.

I think Rangers and Dervishes should get more item support considering Rangers could be Druids and Dervishes could be close range healers.

Spura · Oct 02, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quid Pro Quo

Actually "Deadly Arts" and "Shadow Arts" seem to imply that both of these are tricks and illusions. Just reading the names of the spells also implies that.

Sure there are skills that are actual spells but not many while the Dervish has many spell attacks and heals. Although you are right in the fact that they aren't based on range but the same could be said for many of the necromancer spells. Just look at how many are on touch or in close range.

But I've already said I don't think the Dervish will actually get offhands I'm just saying that it would make sense if they did get them.

I think Rangers and Dervishes should get more item support considering Rangers could be Druids and Dervishes could be close range healers.

You can make a fully fledged offensive caster with Deadly arts and yet it has no focus. Case closed.

Shattered Self · Oct 02, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

The system seems pretty simple to me. If a class has a two-handed weapon attribute, it gets just that weapon. If a class has a one-handed weapon attribute, it gets that weapon and shields. If a class has no weapon attribute, it gets staves/wands/focii for most of its attributes.

HolyHawk · Oct 02, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Hopefully not, getting halved enchantment recharges for area damage spells would make them kinda powerfull. Although they have many spells, they are more like a pressure class, not a caster directelly; at least they get to choose between burning you or slicing you, I have yet to see someone kills effectively with a wand.

Quid Pro Quo · Oct 02, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

You can make a fully fledged offensive caster with Deadly arts and yet it has no focus. Case closed.

My point of "Deadly Arts" implying that its not true magic in the sense of elementalist magic still stands but this is kind of useless going back and forth like this. I already agreed that Dervishes won't get offhands or staves or anything else like that so it doesn't matter if I think they should or shouldn't.

The fact is they won't and that is a case closed, for sure.

gabrial heart · Oct 02, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

No off hands for rangers or sins. Any 2 handed weapon class isn't going to have an off-hand.

Clawdius_Talonious · Oct 02, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I think that there may be shields that will drop, albeit quite rarely, with these attributes cast time or recharge shortened. With the inscription system coming up, hopefully we'll be able to remove them and put them on more useful items. I for one would love to see offhands and shields both be able to hold the same inscriptions, but who knows if that will be the case. If it were however, you could get an offhand with a req in another magic that you were using, and possibly get 20% recharge for earth or wind... However, 10% skill recharge is always an option for a caster, so while I wouldn't anticipate earth/mysticism req offhands you could always use a 10/10 staff even if we don't see earth prayers/wind prayers incriptions on shields/offhands...

Horseman Of War · Oct 02, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

contrary to the belief of some, I think that the assassin IS capable of being a powerful "caster" if you (for example) go with e/a and use energy storage, shadow arts, deadly arts. But just like the dervish (and to somewhat more of an extent) they are not giving us items to prove it. I wonder if they tried using weapons (offhands i mean) during their own Alpha testing (who knows it could be highly unbalancing) or if its just something they dont feel like doing.